Curse

Creeping Carl · Jan 13, 2008, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

uhmm im fairly sure that neither the guilty nor the innocent foreseen the consequences, as i stated earlier they where mislead after a few weeks of waiting for a response to the reports...
so providing own evidence is kinda non-existant. people didnt think it would come to this...all 117 of em.

Umm what?

All I was saying that if people were innocent then send in a report with specifics instead of wasting time and effort with such crap as arguing semantics or twisting ANET's words. If the accused only went to MallyX once and never went back and was truly innocent, then point that out. Tell them in the report to check again the number of times you used this MallyX shortcut.

Why would you need to have forewarning to point out evidence of innocence? Generally, if you're innocent you dont need forewarning. Only the guilty need preparation to cover up their acts.

Mickey · Jan 13, 2008, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asrial

This thread had informative posts on page one.

Why would I want to look through 89 more (as of this post) of people who are trying to explain something they knew was fishy and not a natural part of the game?

So you could really understand what happened? The lies Anet told us. Unless they are truths, no one can know for sure. I would trust Gaile, but I have already recieved false information from her, so who knows, maybe she is right.

Gaile Gray · Jan 13, 2008, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Mickey,

I did not give you numbers. I would not give you numbers. I kindly responded in a general sense to your (inappropriately directed) protests. I'm afraid you have misinterpreted my comments. Please direct your further comments to Support.

Mickey · Jan 13, 2008, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Mickey,

I did not give you numbers. I would not give you numbers. I kindly responded in a general sense to your (inappropriately directed) protests. I'm afraid you have misinterpreted my comments. Please direct your further comments to Support.

Thank you Gaile. But you told me I farmed many more times than 7, which was incorrect. I have been, and I hope I get my responses soon.

Edit: I guess I will have to wait until the extensive checks move into the actual farm.

I've posted on this thread enough, time to move on. And to those who will say "thank god, gtfo, no one will miss you." Thanks, there is a special place in my heart for you.

I pulled up your message, Gaile.

"Sorry, no. Our records show many, many more accesses to the outpost than the six that you confessed. I can find out when you accessed, and whether it was before or after you were told it was an exploit, but honestly, I'm looking at the database, and what you're writing and what I am seeing do not match.

I'm very sorry, I truly am.

Gaile"

Accesses don't count as farms, is what I am trying to get through. I just hope Support realizes that.

Gaile Gray · Jan 13, 2008, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Thank you Gaile. But you told me I farmed many more times than 7, which was incorrect. I have been, and I hope I get my responses soon.

Edit: I guess I will have to wait until the extensive checks move into the actual farm.

I've posted on this thread enough, time to move on. And to those who will say "thank god, gtfo, no one will miss you." Thanks, there is a special place in my heart for you.

I pulled up your message, Gaile.

"Sorry, no. Our records show many, many more accesses to the outpost than the six that you confessed. I can find out when you accessed, and whether it was before or after you were told it was an exploit, but honestly, I'm looking at the database, and what you're writing and what I am seeing do not match.

I'm very sorry, I truly am.

Gaile"

Accesses don't count as farms, is what I am trying to get through. I just hope Support realizes that.

What makes you think we're setting the bar on "farming" only? Whatever gains access to a hidden, unmapped, unpopulated outpost is an exploit. If someone accesses the outpost through an exploit, if someone tries and fails to exploit Mallyx a dozen times, that person is still using an exploit to get to him in the first place.

I'm sorry, but saying "it's only 7 times, I'm innocent" is just wrong.

Mickey · Jan 13, 2008, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

What makes you think we're setting the bar on "farming" only? If you access the outpost through an exploit, if you try and fail to exploit Mallyx a dozen times, you're still using an exploit to get to him in the first place.

I'm sorry, but saying "it's only 7 times, I'm innocent" is just wrong.

So the bar is set on accessed times, not on times farmed? So anyone who did even a few runs (4) will have it shown up as 12, and thus inelligible for unbanned?

In which case, 98% of the 117 have absolutely no chance at gaining their accounts back. Even some of the people who tested the exploit, and deleted their items/gave them away (which is probably bad because it effected the community) will have no chance, according to this statement. I think the "bar" needs to be laid out, unless it's not 100% set yet, according to special issues.

shooshang · Jan 13, 2008, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Oh I see. So using the same logic, if I have a bank account for 2 years, I can rob the bank and if they catch me I should only get a warning?

gg you just compared a game to rl .... lol

as for the incident anet did the right thing by banning people that actually hacked but they should read through the reports by the people that got taken there not knowing what was going on and try and give them a fair call

Gaile Gray · Jan 13, 2008, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

So the bar is set on accessed times, not on times farmed? So anyone who did even a few runs (4) will have it shown up as 12, and thus inelligible for unbanned?

I am not talking to you about numbers. I am simply pointing out -- and I edited my post for clarity -- that accessing the outpost is an exploit, not just farming the boss. How those things numerically stack up in the overall view of an account is up to Support.

Mickey · Jan 13, 2008, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I am not talking to you about numbers. I am simply pointing out -- and I edited my post for clarity -- that accessing the outpost is an exploit, not just farming the boss. How those things numerically stack up in the overall view of an account is up to Support.

Ok, I understand. I was under the impression that the ban was placed on A. Profit B. Amount of Times Farmed C. Just ban in general, for anyone who accessed the outpost, with the script.

I wish I could understand how Support judges if an account remains banned or not. That would help me understand so much.

Apparently, my ignorance is not going to help, even if it is genuine.

Tbh, re-reading Support comments, it seems as though they are judging on how many times the farm is used. As of now, I am under the impression that that is successful farms = profit. What I am trying to say, is that Gaile, you gave me the impression that times farmed = times accessed outpost. I know your not Support though, so I guess I will just have to take it out with them.

high priestess anya · Jan 13, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

What makes you think we're setting the bar on "farming" only? Whatever gains access to a hidden, unmapped, unpopulated outpost is an exploit. If someone accesses the outpost through an exploit, if someone tries and fails to exploit Mallyx a dozen times, that person is still using an exploit to get to him in the first place.

I'm sorry, but saying "it's only 7 times, I'm innocent" is just wrong.

you mean you have no means to prove who went on to fight mallyx from the bugged area?

i hope so as i was in there a few times but only entered battle once...and left shortly after

Clait · Jan 13, 2008, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

What makes you think we're setting the bar on "farming" only? If you access the outpost through an exploit, if you try and fail to exploit Mallyx a dozen times, you're still using an exploit to get to him in the first place.

I'm sorry, but saying "it's only 7 times, I'm innocent" is just wrong.

Perhaps. You are right we are guilty.

Many however, still believe this was harmless. No different then indulging in Duncan runs. That was dubbed an exploit after the fact. The exploit was closed, and to my knowledge nobody was banned. The Mallyx farm had the same mechanics as the Duncan run. Namely.. a repeatable quest, and farming of the final boss. The only difference between how that situation was treated and the current one.. is the number of people involved. I can not see Anet banning anybody over doing Duncans.. if thousands were involved. On the same token.. only a few hundred knew about Mallyx. Same offense, different penalty. Impartial.. yes. If it wasn't.. then please explain why not.

I understand that this whole situation involves setting a precedent. I also understand that Anet needs to be very careful how it is set, or the legalistic-minded individuals will find loopsholes in it. I also understand, why the exploit line remains fuzzy.. again so certain individuals do not "push the envolope." However having no line at all is a different matter. If no idea of a non-return point is set, how are individuals to know they have crossed it?

A precedent has already been set in this current case. Namely, Anet is apt to ban anyone involved whether they stumble upon an exploit or not. Whether that kind of practice continues or not, should be set with this situation. I am not commending the actions done by those involved in the Mallyx farm. I am no less guilty of entering that town then anyone else. It is my hope, that you and the support team are actually looking into all cases.

My faith in both your management and the game itself is shaken. Understandably, this is something that will take time to recover from both as individuals and as a community.. whether or not a the ban remains as is or is lifted. I also understand if no further consideration is needed. After all, any person involved did use an exploit.. whether they knew so or not.. or whether they actively participated or were dragged into.

Thanks for at least taking the time to read this response. I await the final ruling.

Clait

Mickey · Jan 13, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

What makes you think we're setting the bar on "farming" only? Whatever gains access to a hidden, unmapped, unpopulated outpost is an exploit. If someone accesses the outpost through an exploit, if someone tries and fails to exploit Mallyx a dozen times, that person is still using an exploit to get to him in the first place.

I'm sorry, but saying "it's only 7 times, I'm innocent" is just wrong.

You know, some of the people who farmed Mallyx (I'm just going to throw this out there, but hey, me) were ferried there, thinking that this was neither an exploit or a hack. I know, you can ask all you want "how COULD YOU POSSIBLY not know it was not an exploit or a hack?" I've been told stories of guilds getting full armbraces in 5 hours, I had never been told how or why. I just did the math, 20 mins per run (includes ferrying ect) 15 times is guess what....5 hours of work.

Ignorance is obviously not taken into account her, so I guess I got the back end of the stick, figuratively.

GloryFox · Jan 13, 2008, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Posted by Clait
Perhaps. You are right we are guilty.

Yes you can end it there. Thank you for Confessing, nuff said Ok thanks for playing bye bye.

Confession
noun:
1. acknowledgment; avowal; admission: a confession of incompetence.
2. acknowledgment or disclosure of sin or sinfulness, esp. to a priest to obtain absolution.
3. something that is confessed.
4. a formal, usually written, acknowledgment of guilt by a person accused of a crime.

Can we close or end the discussion now?

Creeping Carl · Jan 13, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

You know, some of the people who farmed Mallyx (I'm just going to throw this out there, but hey, me) were ferried there, thinking that this was neither an exploit or a hack. I know, you can ask all you want "how COULD YOU POSSIBLY not know it was not an exploit or a hack?" I've been told stories of guilds getting full armbraces in 5 hours, I had never been told how or why. I just did the math, 20 mins per run (includes ferrying ect) 15 times is guess what....5 hours of work.

Ignorance is obviously not taken into account her, so I guess I got the back end of the stick, figuratively.

You're right, we're all asking how anyone could not know it was an exploit, especially since you have to have prior experience and have had to completed the areas prior to MallyX in order to use this exploit.

Ignorance isnt a defense because anyone can just use it as a defense for anything. Sure, sometimes it's taken into consideration. And in this instance, looking at requirements needed to use the ferry and this exploit, I can't see how anyone can claim ignorance and I'm betting ANET can't either.

Clait · Jan 13, 2008, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Yes you can end it there. Thank you for Confessing, nuff said Ok thanks for playing bye bye.

Confession
noun:
1. acknowledgment; avowal; admission: a confession of incompetence.
2. acknowledgment or disclosure of sin or sinfulness, esp. to a priest to obtain absolution.
3. something that is confessed.
4. a formal, usually written, acknowledgment of guilt by a person accused of a crime.

Can we close or end the discussion now?

Unfortunately for you, your not the judge in this decision. Anet has judgment over accounts involved, not you. Second, Inde has the thread open for a reason.. also not your call.

Forgot to mention, I only read your first sentence as well. ^^

Mickey · Jan 13, 2008, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

You're right, we're all asking how anyone could not know it was an exploit, especially since you have to have prior experience and have had to completed the areas prior to MallyX in order to use this exploit.

Ignorance isnt a defense because anyone can just use it as a defense for anything. Sure, sometimes it's taken into consideration. And in this instance, looking at requirements needed to use the ferry and this exploit, I can't see how anyone can claim ignorance and I'm betting ANET can't either.

Ursan. Ursan > Anything with heroes and consumables? Never been to DoA before, slap Ursan on your bar, grab a friend, load up 2 nuker heroes, a paragon, and a few healers and go. No brain work, nothing, just 121212...I didn't even wiki or guru 3/4 of DoA before doing it with Ursan, I only needed to look at that quest in Gloom where like, 12 mobs come upon you in succession, didn't know how to do that one.

Oh hey, I pugged Foundry with Ursan, and we had a nifty little guy that had done it a ton of times before, that told us everything to do, so there was no problem there. I got to Mallyx expecting anything, and guess what came along.

Creeping Carl · Jan 13, 2008, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clait

I bolded it in the last post.

You need reading lessons. I said I WASNT flaming anyone. So big whoop, I wasnt going to take crap from her after she accused me of being self righteous, a liar and everything else.

EDIT: Even Anya took her statement back. No hard feelings Anya.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Ursan. Ursan > Anything with heroes and consumables? Never been to DoA before, slap Ursan on your bar, grab a friend, load up 2 nuker heroes, a paragon, and a few healers and go. No brain work, nothing, just 121212...I didn't even wiki or guru 3/4 of DoA before doing it with Ursan, I only needed to look at that quest in Gloom where like, 12 mobs come upon you in succession, didn't know how to do that one.

Oh hey, I pugged Foundry with Ursan, and we had a nifty little guy that had done it a ton of times before, that told us everything to do, so there was no problem there. I got to Mallyx expecting anything, and guess what came along.

Sorry, but what does any of that have to do with the claim of ignorance regarding the MallyX exploit?

CougarTheTall · Jan 13, 2008, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

You know, some of the people who farmed Mallyx (I'm just going to throw this out there, but hey, me) were ferried there, thinking that this was neither an exploit or a hack. I know, you can ask all you want "how COULD YOU POSSIBLY not know it was not an exploit or a hack?" I've been told stories of guilds getting full armbraces in 5 hours, I had never been told how or why. I just did the math, 20 mins per run (includes ferrying ect) 15 times is guess what....5 hours of work.

Ignorance is obviously not taken into account her, so I guess I got the back end of the stick, figuratively.

DUDE!

I'm probably the most anti-flame person here but you are preaching to a deaf choir while beating a dead horse.

You accessed the exploit 4 times according to you. Thats 4 more times than you should have in the first place. For someone who has played the game as much as you say you have should have realized the first time that:

"Hey, I'm in an outpost that I've never seen before, accessed through a campaign that isn't even the same as where I end up. I wonder why there aren't any people here? I wonder why no one else is doing this and why wiki doesn't mention it? Ohh wow, it allows me to skip the entire DoA and kill the end boss, this is weird, I wonder if it is legal? I wonder if I should come back here 3 more times? Hmm, it sure is weird that everyone is telling me not to tell anyone about this place. I think I'll continue to come back and not report this to the ANet devs..."

No one is that naive. You knew good and well what you were doing. If you ask me personally, I think the only people that should even be CONSIDERED for an un-ban are the people who accessed it ONCE and then sent a trouble ticket to support saying "Hey WTF is with this, you should check it out Mr. Fix-it". Then maybe, just maybe, the ONE or TWO people who actually did that should be considered. Not the people who went in 2, 3, 4,..178 times.

Shell out 40 bucks for a new campaign and start over. It will give you something to do for the year leading up to GW2 and the beta.

Mickey · Jan 13, 2008, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by CougarTheTall

DUDE!

I'm probably the most anti-flame person here but you are preaching to a deaf choir while beating a dead horse.

You accessed the exploit 4 times according to you. Thats 4 more times than you should have in the first place. For someone who has played the game as much as you say you have should have realized the first time that:

"Hey, I'm in an outpost that I've never seen before, accessed through a campaign that isn't even the same as where I end up. I wonder why there aren't any people here? I wonder why no one else is doing this and why wiki doesn't mention it? Ohh wow, it allows me to skip the entire DoA and kill the end boss, this is weird, I wonder if it is legal? I wonder if I should come back here 3 more times? Hmm, it sure is weird that everyone is telling me not to tell anyone about this place. I think I'll continue to come back and not report this to the ANet devs..."

No one is that naive. You knew good and well what you were doing. If you ask me personally, I think the only people that should even be CONSIDERED for an un-ban are the people who accessed it ONCE and then sent a trouble ticket to support saying "Hey WTF is with this, you should check it out Mr. Fix-it". Then maybe, just maybe, the ONE or TWO people who actually did that should be considered. Not the people who went in 2, 3, 4,..178 times.

Shell out 40 bucks for a new campaign and start over. It will give you something to do for the year leading up to GW2 and the beta.

You obviously have the wrong person, why, because I have said at least 15 times in this thread alone that I killed Mallyx 7 times...not 4.....7. Judging by that, I can see that you have not read through the thread yet. Enjoy.

And where do you get the part where you say "judging by how much you said you have played." I have never said anything about that, at all....get your facts straight before you start a flame war.

I'm not even sure I will be getting GW 2 now.

/waits for the "good, glad that I won't see you there"

high priestess anya · Jan 13, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

[QUOTE=GloryFox]Yes you can end it there. Thank you for Confessing, nuff said Ok thanks for playing bye bye.

yeah they are guilty...shame . but lets not forget all the people who farm duncan etc....i wonder how many of you guys who are putting the guilty down and kicking them in the face after they just got booted, you guys who trying to push along their lifetime bans.. i just wonder how many of you are guilty of other exploits ie duncan as just stated....
no one is perfect.
imho hack=perma ban
mass farm of mallyx which result in armbraces=perma ban
1-10 attempts with exploit= severe ban

perma does seem harsh.
6 months to fix a bug.....
insti-ban with very little help from support....
meh whats done is done, you guys smacked the azz. now ride the waves

dont let carl bother you. i dont see how anyone can get so much excitement out of other peoples dismay, sick in a sense. creeping carl you are strange